In a November 2020 call between Sen. Ted Cruz and Fox Business host Maria Bartiromo, the Texas Republican said Donald Trump’s allies needed “actual evidence” to support the then-president’s election fraud claims if they wanted their challenges to hold up in court.

“They can’t just be, you know, ‘Somebody tweeted that.’ There’s got to be demonstrable facts that can be laid out with evidence because that’s what a court of law is going to look to ― not just an allegation but actual facts,” he said in a recording of the Nov. 7, 2020, call obtained by MSNBC.

Cruz added that he was “hopeful” that Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, who led the legal push to overturn the 2020 presidential results, “comes on the show tomorrow and he has some of those facts,” and he added, “I hope the the legal team continues to lay out the specific evidence because that’s what it’s going to take to prevail in court.”

Even though no such evidence was produced, Cruz went on to lead an effort to block the certification of President Joe Biden’s win, pushing Trump’s lie that the election had been rife with fraud.

The recording was taken by a former Fox News producer who is singing the network. Abby Grossberg, who worked as a producer for Bartiromo and Tucker Carlson, has accused the network of harassment and alleged it pressured her into giving misleading testimony as part of the $1.6 billion Dominion Voting Systems defamation lawsuit.

Recordings she made of off-air conversations between Fox hosts and their guests, as well as her testimony in the case, reportedly helped spur the network to reach its $787.5 million settlement deal with Dominion. Fox News has denied that account.

Dominion sued Fox News over its coverage of the 2020 election, accusing it of amplifying damaging and false claims that the voting technology company was part of a conspiracy to rig the vote against Trump.

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